I am really tired of reading that Christians believe that atheists are atheists BECAUSE they:
A. Don’t want to follow the rules of society
B. Are Gay or in some way sexually immoral
C. Don’t teach their kids values, don’t celebrate manmade holidays and traditions.
D. Are harmful to others because they choose to opt out of organized religion.
E. Worship the DEVIL
First of all, ATHEISTS are nothing more than regular people, business owners (myself) educators, and housewifes, and parents who choose to OPT OUT of organized religion. Being religious doesn’t make you a good person, or spiritual same as not being religious doesn’t make you a bad person or non-spiritual, we all love and cherish our kids and families, we abide by the law, and the governments regulatory process. WE do not however alienate or intimidate using words and values coming from a book that is flawed with falacies. I want to live in a world in which my children can decide for themselves.
Only atheists can be truly moral. Any judgment of behaviour that relies on obedience, on following orders (such as Christianity, Islam etc.) is not a form of morality, by definition. Since morality is the judgment of good and bad behaviour according to conscience, true morality can only come in the absence of all motivations which are selfish (e.g. wanting to gain a place in ‘heaven’ or avoid being sent to ‘hell’) or refer to an outside agency (a supposed deity) for their basis.
You’re right. Being religious does not make you a good person.
And yes, we live in America and are happy that we can decide for ourselves what to believe.
You have listened to, or met, some very bad examples of Christians.
I would venture to guess that all Atheists are not by definition wonderful people either. ? Because they are human, there’s probably some who are stiff necked and judgmental just like the Christians you’ve met?
Jesus is a gentleman. He does not want anyone to love him out of fear. He does not want anyone to be forced into anything. He values free will.
So actually Christians should be the most non judgmental, the most accepting of differences, and the less stiff necked, of any ppl.
Too bad it doesn’t work out that way.
Not all Christians think that way…to say that would be the same generalization you claim Christians make about Atheists. Christianity and morality do not always go hand in hand either. There are non-Christians who are moral and some who are immoral, just as some who claim to be Christians are not always moral either. I believe anyone can follow a code of ethics, but Christians don’t just follow the “10 commandments” as a code, it is supposed to be our ethical law. Following it does not make you a Christian, however. Faith plays the most important role. As a Christian, I believe in God, and believe that heaven exists, and that believing that Jesus died for my sins is the only way to get there. I follow the code of ethics because it is the “right” way to live. I do not condemn others for their beliefs or lack of. I respect other people’s decisions and choices. After all, Christianity is about free will also. You have to choose to follow Christ. I’m sorry that most of your experiences with Christians has been negative.
Friend, I hope what I am about to say doesn’t offend you, because I say it with kindness and tough love – Since this forum is all about Religion & Spirituality, why do you come here knowing the content? If anything, the contribution you seem to offer here does nothing more than creates an environment of controversy and stirs up the exact thing you are speaking against, except in an opposing view. It would be helpful if you and others with the same views would understand and realize that Christians – * Are human beings also, and share the same weaknesses as you and anyone else…. * Share the same frustrations as you, but from the opposite point of view….. * Have their own individual personalities with different levels of communication skills…. * Have different levels of compassion and frustrations when it comes to God… Instead of bringing disunity here, it would be a blessing for those of you who hold different viewpoints to simply read and learn instead of coming here with the same old and tiresome arguments and harassment.
It’s a mindset thing.
Binary logic is the basis of the whole religion. There are no shades of grey, that’s the first factor. So, everything it either good or bad, allowed or forbiffen, heaven or hell… you get the picture? They deal only in absolutes, that’s why the whole ID/YEC mess. The bible is either right, or wrong… there simply isn’t room for “partially right” or “maybe right”.
The second problem becomes from christianity itself. As most of the religions it’s basically about submitting to god’s will. An outside authority becomes your guide, everything you do is measured against that. I know I’m a good man, a christian would need to check from the bible/priest/other how closely he resembles what he should be, before making that claim.
I think the people who are drawn to religion in general, might be people who need that kind of support structure, and easily digestable absolute truths. It’s a lot simpler to do only “good” that someone clearly tells you is considered good according to rules. Atheists have to decide a lot more for themselves, and it’s pretty hard to understand for someone who doesn’t do it.
It makes sense from the christia point of view… to do good, is to follow god’s will
– atheists don’t follow god’s will
– what they do is then bad
– bad people do bad things
– atheists are bad.
Atheist don’t work for god
-atheists work against god
-devil is against god
-atheists work for the devil
That’s pretty much how I see it…. and I know I’m brutally generalizing here. I’m sure most christians are a bit more complicated than that, in fact I’ve noticed a few here I’d welcome as friends. It’s just the fundie idiots that are annoying (or kids trying to get a rise out of us).
I am a christian. No now keep reading. Im tired of the same crap u are. My battle buddy in Iraq was an atheist. One of the greatest men i have ever had the pleasure of meeting. He had strong morals and convictions. He laid down his life for me and a few others at a checkpoint that was ambushed. He loved his wife and kids, and would not tolerate any wrongdoing under his command. He did not drink, curse, or speak an ill word of someone else. He was a good man and i really miss him. Most atheists I have met are in good moral standing. Your generalizing of Christians and atheists is wrong. ALL Christians are not bad people who judge you like you say. Also there are some atheists who try to intimidate and call names. (christians too, dont get me wrong) They call me stupid for believing. I say a round of respect for everyone. On me! Fact is All athiest (as you put it) arent good ppl. All Christians arent good ppl. There are good and bad in both groups. PEACE!!!
Christians equate a belief in God with having a ground for their morals, not with morals.
If one believes in no higher power in the world than man, what makes what you say better than what I say? If I say killing Jews is bad, what makes that better than hitler saying it is fine? To me, it is because God says that killing people for the sake of killing them is wrong, it is sinful. For an atheist, how do they know it is wrong? They may say it is wrong, but what higher authority do they take that “moral” from? If it is just something they thought of, how is it any better than hitler thinking it is right?
Without a higher authority, truth becomes subjective, not objective. But truth Is objective. If I say you are a orange, are you really an orange? The same goes with morals. If God says murder is wrong, it Is wrong even if a murderer says it is fine.
I hope that helps you understand why christians equate belief in God with at least some semblance of unchanging moral ground.
We do that – equate belief in God and the Bible with morality – because, although our idea of morals certainly encompasses the ten commandments (same as most atheists who don’t steal or cheat on their wife or kill), we also believe in certain other things which we believe God directs us to, such as personal modesty, moderation in habits, soberness, clean speach, etc, which I know and you know most other self-professed atheists toss away with two fingers on their way through life, daily.
I hope this helps.
Not all christians do that. If you met a real christian,you’d now that they are the nicest people ever.
The same you say for an atheist is the same you’d say for a christian.
You’re around the wrong ones and haven’tmet a true christian.
Because morals are from God. God’s way of living is THE standard (morality), therefore morality is tied directly to God. You may notice that the further our country gets away from God, the more the national morality (such as tolerance/participation for/of sins like homosexuality, adultery, greed, etc) is on the decline. But you seem to have your ideas set, so you won’t comprehend what I am saying. Sorry.
P.S. Being a “good person” doesn’t get you to heaven. Being a Godly person does.